When Megan Draper started Philanthrope Reimagined, she was not trying to solve a business problem. She was trying to solve a people problem. After 25 years in nonprofit advancement, including executive fundraising roles at the Madeira School and the Medical University of South Carolina, she watched the sector hemorrhage good leaders. Not because the work stopped mattering, but because the people doing it stopped being able to hold it.
"If we continue to have people burn out and leave the sector," Megan told BetterUnite Co-founder Leya Simmons on a recent episode of the 501(c) Drop, "there's just not going to be a lot of good leaders here. And that worries me."
It should worry all of us. Because the numbers bear it out.
This is not just anecdotal. Megan shared data that puts the scale of the problem in stark relief. Forty-five percent of nonprofit professionals report burnout. Nineteen percent leave the sector annually because of it. Only twenty-seven percent have access to any kind of professional development budget. And ninety-five percent of nonprofit leaders express some level of concern about burnout.
Nearly every leader in the sector feels it. Very few have structural support to address it.
One of the most useful reframes from this conversation is the distinction between compassion fatigue and burnout. Megan's licensed counselor friend put it plainly: compassion fatigue is the check engine light. Burnout is being broken by the side of the road.
Compassion fatigue develops when caring continues without replenishment. It shows up as emotional exhaustion, disconnection from the mission, dread around donor calls that used to energize, and a growing sense that something is wrong. Not with the work, but with you. It is also, as Megan noted, called "the cost of caring" in medical literature.
Burnout is further down that road. That is where people stop. That is where they leave.
The practical implication is this: by the time someone reaches burnout, intervention is much harder. Compassion fatigue is still the warning. It is still the moment where a different choice is available.
Megan flagged one red flag that most leaders would not immediately recognize: the word "should."
When a fundraiser starts saying that a donor should give, or should come back, or should be more engaged, it signals a shift from relational thinking to transactional frustration. Fundraising is inherently relational. It cannot be forced. When leaders start reaching for "should," it often marks the beginning of disconnection from both the donor and the mission.
"You can have empathy but not have to carry it. You can hold it and you can care, but you don't have to make it yours."
That distinction between holding something and owning it is one of the most useful tools in Megan's coaching practice.
Megan introduced a framework she calls the capacity gap, divided into four areas where nonprofit organizations consistently fall short.
Human Capacity. Most smaller organizations simply do not have enough people to do the work that needs to happen. Teams spend more time managing chaos than cultivating impact because there is no structure to support the volume of what is being asked.
Operational Capacity. Without systems, processes, and plans, organizations default to being reactive. CRMs go underutilized. Data is scattered. The institutional knowledge that should make things easier instead lives in someone's head until that person leaves.
Financial Capacity. Many organizations cannot clearly articulate what they are raising money for beyond "more." Megan's work with leaders consistently reveals that defining specific philanthropic priorities (what does it cost to do this program, what impact does that dollar create) is both the hardest and most freeing thing a leader can do.
Relational Capacity. People can only hold so much. When portfolio sizes used to run at 250 donors per major gift officer, the math was never going to work relationally. Sustainable fundraising requires an honest accounting of how many relationships a person can genuinely tend.
Megan is direct about one thing: there is no single fix. Compassion fatigue presents differently in every person. What works for one leader will not work for another. But what does work, across the board, is structure.
Her framework, which she calls a generosity canvas, builds from people outward. Who is your community? How do you talk about your vision? What are your funding priorities, and how do you share them? From there, the work moves into rhythms: annual visioning, quarterly tracking, monthly reevaluation, and weekly celebrations of what is going right.
"A goal is not a punishment. It is an opportunity to help you succeed and see the good things that are happening."
That reframe matters. When goals are experienced only as deadlines, leaders spend all their time bracing for what they have not done. When goals are understood as markers of progress, they become evidence of the impact that is actually happening.
One of the most practical threads in this conversation was directed at board members. Megan's ask is not complicated. It is a check-in. It is a "how are you doing?" directed at the staff members who are holding the weight of the mission.
More concretely: board members can ask what would give the executive director more flexibility. They can offer to open a door with a donor. They can come into conversations not with directives but with open hands: "I want to support you. What do I not know that I should?"
When boards focus exclusively on metrics without attending to the health of the people behind those metrics, they accelerate the very turnover they are trying to prevent.
Megan closed with two things she wants every nonprofit leader to hold onto.
First: you are doing good things. The impact is real. The world is better because nonprofits exist. On the hard days, that is not nothing. It is the whole point.
Second: you are not alone. Whether that means finding a coach, reaching out to a peer on LinkedIn, or using AI to think through a quarterly plan when a human coach is not in the budget, the work of leading well does not have to be done in isolation.
Transcript Recording:
Leya Simmons (00:00)
Hello, everybody. Thank you for joining us. Welcome to the 501C Drop. I am Leah Simmons and I am the CEO and co-founder of Better Unite. Welcome. I'm so happy that you're here on the Tuesday following Memorial Day. I know it's one of those kind of sometimes.
brutal feeling days coming back after a three day weekend. I today am so excited about this conversation. I'm joined by Megan Draper. She's the founder and CEO of philanthropy reimagined. And she is going to talk to us about exactly what I am positive some of us are feeling today just naturally, the hidden cost of doing good things, compassion fatigue, compassion fatigue, compassion fatigue and capacity gap in the nonprofit sector. I hear this
word, Megan, thrown around a lot, but I also don't hear a lot of solutions. So I'm so grateful for you joining us. Thank you so much. Welcome.
Megan Draper (00:55)
I'm so excited. Thanks for having me.
Leya Simmons (00:57)
Of course,
of course. And for those of you watching, I want to let you know that we are also now a podcast. So you will be able to find us on Spotify or find this episode on Spotify in the next little bit and listen to it on your on your next walk, hopefully, or something while you're taking care of yourself, ⁓ as well as the recording we will provide to everybody that has signed up on.
Friday, typically following our Tuesday webinars. And if you have any questions, if you're joining us live, enter those into the chat and we will try to get to those. But if we don't, we'll also have Megan follow up with you later. And if you're watching the recording, you can always email questions that you have to support at betterunite.com. And then we will make sure that Megan gets a chance to.
to answer and respond to you. I want to give a little bit of an introduction, Megan, to you. You have a very impressive ⁓ career here in a long time, over 20 years, I believe, in the nonprofit sector. So highlights of Megan's professional career include executive fundraising at the Madeira School, a private girls' day and boarding school in McLean, Virginia, and at the Medical University of South Carolina College of Pharmacy in Charleston, where ⁓ Megan still
lit. And aside from being a CFRE, Certified Fundraising Executive, Megan is also a member of CASE, the Council for Advancement and Support of Education, and the AFP, the Association of Fundraising Professionals, where she has also served as a board member for the AFP Low Country Board, a committee member on the AFP International Next Generation Committee, and is a member of the 2014 Charleston Regional Business Journal 40 Under 40.
She was also nominated and selected as the inaugural cohort of the Advanced Leadership Program with the Medical University of South Carolina's Leadership Institute. those were just, I didn't know that you would ⁓ for sure get to all of your accolades, so I wanted to make sure and tout you for you. about that? Of course, please introduce yourself to us and also tell us a little bit about Philanthropy Reimagined. I'm so intrigued by what you're doing here.
Megan Draper (03:06)
That's so kind, thank you.
So like you said, I have been in the nonprofit sector. I was actually calculating it. It's been about 25 years now. So I need to update on my things. what's really funny is I got involved in college. so I
Leya Simmons (03:22)
⁓ there we go.
Megan Draper (03:29)
When I was super little, my whole family went to a small university in South Carolina called Furman University. It's in the upstate in Greenville. And my dad played football. My parents met there. And I decided that's where I wanted to go to school, right? Like I was set on it. And I remember I was probably like...
Leya Simmons (03:37)
Okay.
I'm
Megan Draper (03:48)
probably eight or nine and my mom ⁓ said I'm gonna go to Furman and she sat me on the counter and I remember this and she said Megan do you know what a scholarship is and I was like completely enamored I was like a scholar first of all you had to pay to go to school like all these things as an agent I'm trying to process so fast forward ⁓ I got involved when I went to Furman I met the president at the time
Leya Simmons (04:02)
Yeah, what?
Mm-hmm.
Megan Draper (04:11)
and he asked me to come speak at donor meetings because I had the scholarship, I had a family legacy, like all of these connections. And yeah, I fell in love with generosity at that moment. I was in room with strangers and the reality that I was there because of their generosity was something that was humbling and awe inspiring. And it just was this moment where I was like, this is good. Like this, how do we make?
Leya Simmons (04:31)
⁓ what the...
Yeah.
Megan Draper (04:37)
this happened more, right? And they shared stories about why they gave and I was in college and he was asking me to come talk and eat. I was like, I am in it. And so from that forward, I fell in love. So I was probably one of the very few that graduated from college and said like, I want to go into fundraising. Yeah. And everyone was like, even the VP, had a mentoring conversation with the VP at development at Furman. And I was like, this is what I want to do. And he was like, maybe don't.
Leya Simmons (04:56)
Right now, yeah.
Megan Draper (05:06)
start there, like try something else first. I was like, no, this is what I'm going to do. So I ended up going right from, um, Berman to the Madeira school and the rest is history. But really like, it's just funny to see that path. Cause I think people fall into fundraising and nonprofits in a lot of different ways. And I feel like I was one that was like, this is what I want to do. Um, and just have loved it ever since. But, um, to that end, you know, COVID happened, everything happened. And as I looked around,
Leya Simmons (05:20)
Yeah. Usually, yeah.
Megan Draper (05:36)
I just saw people ⁓ burned out. They were exhausted. You could just tell a difference in the way people were responding and interacting, especially in the nonprofit sector. And so there was a season in there where I thought one day when I retire a long time from now, I'll start my own consulting firm and I'll help organizations create strategy and do these things. And there was just this season when I looked around and saw the burnout and the hurt, especially in women leaders, right?
Leya Simmons (06:03)
exhaustion. Interesting.
Yeah.
Megan Draper (06:06)
That
was because I just kept thinking like our families and our like we hold so much right we hold so much emotionally inside the home and outside of the home and I can relate to women right and I just continued to see this and I thought if we don't do something to support these leaders we're just going to lose out on so many good things right. Non-profits were literally created to do good things and to make the world a better place and so I kept thinking like what does this mean and
Leya Simmons (06:16)
Yeah?
Megan Draper (06:35)
really found an opportunity to say like, let's step into this space. And I started just doing consulting. I wanted to walk around, walk alongside people and create strategies and help them implement strategies. And I got to know leaders. I realized like, I really want to help the leader. Like there was such hurt. And so ended up getting coaching certified, all the things. and so have transitioned that into training and to where we are now to really say like, Hey, we're all in it. Like,
Leya Simmons (06:46)
Sure.
That's awesome.
Megan Draper (07:05)
We've all felt compassion fatigue, I think, at some level, at some point in our careers. And really, I think the reality is if we continue to have people burn out and leave the sector, ⁓ there's just not going to be a lot of good leaders here in the sector. And that worries me, right? And so, we have support people.
Leya Simmons (07:24)
It should, yeah.
You and I were talking about this just before we became live is that I hear this conversation a lot in the different rooms I'm in. I talk to a lot of nonprofits, but honestly, I hear it more in the Giving Institute that we're involved in. We work with the Fundraising Effectiveness Project, honestly, also with other ⁓ nonprofit services organizations, AFPs. And I hear the problem.
You know, identified quite often, but I don't hear as many solutions as I really, I would think after, you know, I've heard about this pretty much my entire career in nonprofits, which is not as long as yours, but I'm like at 15 years. And, and so I, you know, I, I'm so grateful that there are people leaders like you that not just identifying the problem and raising awareness, which is important, but also now here's some steps we can take. Right. Well,
Megan Draper (08:20)
And I think,
Leya Simmons (08:21)
Go ahead, please.
Megan Draper (08:22)
I was gonna say, I think that the reality of not having a solution is because when it presents differently in every person, I think people don't talk about it. I mean, just with anything in our life, in our society, when you don't have to share a weakness, you're not going to, especially as a leader, you wanna be guarded instead of.
Leya Simmons (08:28)
Sure.
Yeah, it's very vulnerable.
Megan Draper (08:43)
And I just went on a women's leader retreat in Montana. It was amazing. And I sat around this huge table with 22 people who I admired and looked up to in a variety of different ways. And the whole point of that table was to have a time to share and to be vulnerable. And as you did that, walls came down, right? And you felt for who they are. But in our sector and in professional life, that's really hard to find a very safe place to do that.
Leya Simmons (08:49)
Nice.
Yeah.
It really is. I absolutely agree with that. And as I mentioned, when we kind of kicked off, know, here we are Memorial Day post three day weekend, which, you know, while yes, of course it's lovely. It feels good. It's like a break. It is a break, but then you come back and it almost feels like you're you're punished or something like that for having having taken this this respite. And then it's we're also now looking to to summer where again, you know.
Certain things tell us that should be carefree and a break and all of that, but I know for sure that our, you know, EDs and some of our development directors who are listening, our leaders that are listening, are not looking at that sort of summer. they're, if anything, it's compounded by children being out of school and the, you know, fluctuating schedules and things like that that I know you and I can both relate to as well. So ⁓ what...
What do you hear from your clients and your leaders ⁓ as we move into this season?
Megan Draper (10:13)
Yeah, I think that's a great question. And you know, I think that's like literally the ultimate nonprofit myth and really leadership myth in general, right? Like summer is slow. And I think what we've kind of equated this to though, right, is if we reach a certain point.
then we can have the ability to give ourselves permission to lead at a sustainable pace. So we've given ourselves, and because most leaders are similar types, especially fundraising leaders or those in the nonprofit world, they're go-getters, they're gonna make that work. And so, so many aspects of our calendar ⁓ and our cadence is I just have to get through X.
Leya Simmons (10:33)
interesting.
Mm-hmm.
Megan Draper (10:55)
have to get through the gala. I have to get to your end. I have to get through the campaign before I can actually not even just rest, but just give myself the permission to be sustainable in that leadership. And I think that's where it's really hard because there's always something mission driven in the work that we do, right? There's always something. ⁓ And so I think.
Leya Simmons (11:16)
We always need something.
Yeah.
Megan Draper (11:20)
And whether that's an internal colleague or an external donor, always joke like, know, donors have our cell phone number. So they're texting, they're calling, you're always on. And we wouldn't have it any other way, truly, right? Building it relationally. And so I think that's where it gets tricky. so it's almost this exhaustion deferred, right? Like, I can't be tired yet. I have to keep pushing. And so it's interesting.
Leya Simmons (11:35)
Yeah, true.
Yeah.
Megan Draper (11:50)
client and it was a major gift officer and so we were in coaching and they were in the middle of a campaign and so she was new to major gifts but had been in this organization for a long time so she was smart she was good she was on it relational based all the things and so we were it was probably around this time last year and they were about to head into their major gift phase so they were wrapping up their leadership phase she had strategized I mean she had done all the things right I mean it was amazing and she looked at me one day and said
What do I do during the summer? And I was, it caught me off guard a minute, cause I thought you just keep doing the same thing. And then I thought, no, you can't because donors are traveling, team members are out on vacation. All of these things of the world, like you said earlier, tells you to slow down. But on the flip side, you still have your goals. You still have the campaign you're running. And so we talked through it. And you know, for her, one of the things that I really coached her through was what are those things now that you can do?
Leya Simmons (12:26)
Yeah.
true.
Megan Draper (12:49)
that give you the excuse to reach out again, right? Like that's always my thought when I'm coaching a major gift person, like how do we keep the door open and what's your excuse that you're gonna follow up or say something again? And so I think that's really the hardest part of summer is it's not things you can control, right? And that's when you feel overwhelmed and that adds to the pressure and the, just the impact of what we're trying to do in moving forward and balancing other schedules.
Leya Simmons (13:06)
Yeah.
It's totally true in every, mean, and this is not unique to fundraising, as you're, when a big project ends or a campaign is finished or summer arrives, the lack feels like anxiety a lot of times for me anyway. don't know, maybe I'm revealing more myself, but it definitely manifests first as anxiety and I have to like sit down and think it through and employ some of your tools as well.
Megan Draper (13:32)
you
Nope.
Right.
And you know, it's interesting. I, one of my very favorite leaders that I worked under, actually, he was an executive leader of mine. He's like, I do, I never want your job, Megan. And I was like, I'm the best job in the world. Like I literally, I was like, this is amazing. This was when I was, you know, a frontline fundraiser. And he said, there's never an end. There's never a time where you feel like you've been successful. And like you said, you get to the end of that campaign and then they go, well, what's next? Like.
Leya Simmons (14:09)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Megan Draper (14:16)
What's the strategy? How are you living? Exactly. And so when you don't have those answers, I that's where that really, like you're saying, that anxiety, that overwhelm, and we're wired that way, right? Like to keep going. And so I do think that's a huge part of the strategy for compassion fatigue is what can you control? What, right? Like what can you control and how are you going to control it? And then how are you going to communicate it, really?
Leya Simmons (14:18)
What are you working on?
Yeah.
And I would imagine too, then how are you also going to let go of the parts that you cannot control? is, again, being vulnerable, definitely my problem, the piece that I struggle with for sure.
Megan Draper (14:55)
thousand percent and I think that's really the hardest part especially when you're in an executive leadership position when you are a fundraiser and you're holding and balancing and the one thing so you kind of talking about the capacity gap ⁓
I feel like that's where we are in the nonprofit sector. And I see that there's four different areas of that gap. Human capacity, operational capacity, financial capacity, and relational capacity. So if you have plans and strategies for those three or four things, you're smooth saving. The reality is nonprofit organizations don't have enough there to support that, right? So human capacity, a lot of times the clients that I work with just don't have enough people to do the work.
Leya Simmons (15:38)
Yeah.
Megan Draper (15:39)
that needs to happen. Operational capacity, they don't have the processes in place. They don't have procedures. They are very reactive. They don't have a plan. The financial capacity, it's amazing the number of organizations that I work with and I say like, what are your fundraising priorities? And they say, we just need to raise money, right?
Leya Simmons (15:57)
More money.
Megan Draper (15:58)
More
money, let's get more money. And then lastly is that relational capacity. We're human beings and so we can only hold so much. That's where the burnout comes in. That's where the compassion fatigue because, you know, even when I started in nonprofits.
Leya Simmons (16:06)
Mm.
Megan Draper (16:13)
the number of people that were supposed to be in your portfolio, was like 250, right? Like of a major, and you're like, how do you manage 250 relationships? And so it's a recalibration of all of these things to be able to make it sustainable and being able to, think what you just said, what can I control first of all? And then what can I say that's not happening now?
Leya Simmons (16:23)
Yeah.
right now and then be okay with that. That's the second part. Well, so you, I know, right? it's, again, as I, and this is why I'm so fascinated by your work as well. And I find it so necessary. But you do use the phrase cheerleader for good, which I love. I think this is such a good.
Megan Draper (16:39)
Right? That is it.
Leya Simmons (16:54)
⁓ That just makes sense to my nonprofit brain. You know what I mean? ⁓ But I wondered how, so I guess I'm backing us up. How did you really get into this part of the work? You described what you saw during COVID, but ⁓ was there a moment that you kind of assessed and said, okay, I can do something about this or that you said this is just like, this is what's worth, I'm just curious, how did that come about?
Megan Draper (16:58)
Yeah
You know, it's funny because when you hear stories of someone starting a company, right, they see a problem, they know the solution, they step into that. And that's what I did. Right. I saw this. I saw this burnout. My solution was to figure out how to help create plans and implement plans. That was my initial thought. What's humbling as a leader and a founder, right, is you step into it then you realize like, oh, there's other.
Leya Simmons (17:36)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Megan Draper (17:45)
components to this, Like ⁓ consulting is tricky and especially as everything is changing in the nonprofit world, because I can come into anybody and say, here's the right plan, now do it. But if I'm not working with that leader to say, wait, what, what, what.
Leya Simmons (17:47)
⁓ yeah.
Megan Draper (18:02)
is actually something you can do about this. How do you implement that? And so that's kind of where this shift came from. I still work and do plans, but the reality is stepping into opportunities to coach and sit alongside leaders. Because I do believe that when leaders are enabled and encouraged, that that's when generosity flourishes, right? Both internally and externally, because otherwise, you're reactive, you're trying to come up with solutions that aren't sustainable, you're doing something
Leya Simmons (18:04)
Sure.
Megan Draper (18:31)
that a board member is saying to do rather than what you know should happen, right? And so a lot of it, in my opinion, is creating plans because then you can say, oh, look, I'm really busy the next three weeks doing this. Maybe next month we can look at that, right? And so I think as leaders having that answer, like you said, one, saying we're not gonna do it now and then having a solution of it doesn't align with our vision. It's something we're not gonna do right now.
Leya Simmons (18:57)
⁓ scope creep.
Megan Draper (18:59)
Right? so how does, how do we just define that? And smaller organizations in particular, which there's so many, right? For 500 and 500,000 and below leaders, they don't have people to talk to, to partner with, to have conversations and say like, hey, no, that actually isn't reasonable. Like, yeah. And so the cheerleader for good is actually one of my favorite titles because I think the reality is that
Leya Simmons (19:04)
Yes.
Absolutely.
Megan Draper (19:27)
The people that are doing this work are good people and they want good things. Right? And so that has, um, has always been like the tagline of the company is to help them do that. But to be able to come alongside and really say like, Hey, you've got this because the reality is I always, I actually said this to a client. was like, you know what? What we do isn't rocket science. And she said, good. It was, she's new to the profession. She's like, I don't want to do rocket science. I was like, me either. Right.
Leya Simmons (19:31)
Of course.
Megan Draper (19:57)
But it's funny because I've had lots of people say, you shouldn't say that, Megan, because it is an intricacy of an art and a science. If you had my husband stand in a room and have to engage with people, he would be like, oh no. This is right. Exactly. And so it's so funny too, just learning that process. So as I worked with clients in consulting and coaching, what I realized is that we had this same
Leya Simmons (20:06)
Yeah.
and then ask them for money.
Megan Draper (20:27)
framework that we walked through, right? And so how did I, what I was realizing is if I could systemize it to be able to give more people the system and the framework, then they would be empowered in a way that they just wouldn't be on their own, right? And they may not be able to hire me full-time as a consultant or, you know, and so being able, it's going back to like that adapting, right? And it's really cool when you start something, you can adapt it and be okay and make those decisions. And so where,
Leya Simmons (20:52)
Well.
Megan Draper (20:56)
where it came from, I was gonna consult to really being this cheerleader for good, is that I found ways to serve people and what I was passionate about, and I'm passionate about people and helping people. And these missions that people are leading, like if we didn't have that, our world would hurt.
Leya Simmons (21:17)
Yeah, it really would. So just rewinding quickly before, because I really do want to give you more time to talk about those four pillars. ⁓ I'm curious how
how you coach your clients to identifying what's happening. in, as I said, my end of a project feels a lot like anxiety. And at this point I can sort of identify it and I have a lot of mindfulness practices and I can sort of handle it. But nobody does it perfectly. This is a practice and I'm still working on it because I'm a person. But I know that we give it lot of names. get compassion fatigue is one, but we call it burnout
just plain old exhaustion, or sometimes, I know for some folks it'll manifest more as like a depressive feeling. ⁓ How do you help your clients in identifying what's going on? And I would be curious too, because I can only imagine sitting in a room with you when you're kind of trying to break the news to somebody that like, I'm here to help you fundraise, but what I actually need to help you with right now is your compassion fatigue. I can only imagine that you've gotten a variety of responses to that.
Anyway, tell us about that.
Megan Draper (22:31)
Well, and I think compassion fatigue, as we said a minute ago, it shows up in a lot of different ways and for different people. Right. And so the first thing is I don't actually diagnose this in any way, or form. Right. We have a conversation and I help say like, how are you feeling? Like, what does that look like? How is it impacting life? Right. So one of my clients, we talk a lot about boundaries because what I see in the way they work is it's like, it has to be happening now. Like, and I
Leya Simmons (22:37)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Megan Draper (23:00)
what I remind them of is that if you don't have boundaries, then you're not gonna be sustainable. And so those conversation, I ask, I love questions, questions are my love language. So we really talk through how does this make you feel? What do you enjoy? So one of the things I do is something called a joy mapping. And so you look at your calendar, it's one of my favorite things. when I was stressed out at work and I was overwhelmed and just...
Leya Simmons (23:05)
Mm-hmm.
⁓
Megan Draper (23:27)
was really feeling down, it actually was something my husband was like, what do you enjoy about your work? And I was like, well, let's try. So I took a calendar and I would write down after each meeting or activity, what gave me life? Like where I was like, yes, let's do this. And what drained me? You can't just take everything that drains you and.
toss it aside, but you can integrate things that give you life into those days. And so it's those types of things of asking questions like, what actually do you enjoy about the work we do? Because I do think sometimes fundraisers get in leadership positions and they want to be a fundraiser, right? And so do they want to be coached into leadership? How do they balance that? And sometimes it's reorganizing the actual physical work chart to be able to let them thrive in what they're
Leya Simmons (24:04)
Yeah.
Megan Draper (24:17)
strengths are. And so it really is, I think it's also really helpful when I'm talking to people that they know that this research is there. Like this isn't just a feeling and you should be able to buck up Buttercup, right? Like it's real. There's turnover. Let's see, I was looking at my note numbers earlier. 45 % of nonprofit professionals report burnout. So at some...
Leya Simmons (24:40)
Yeah, it's a huge number.
Megan Draper (24:42)
Right. Nineteen percent annually turnover because of this burnout. ⁓ And then even when I dug into it, really hurt was only twenty seven percent have some sort of professional development budget. Right. They can't they kind of feel stuck because it's one I heard people say, ⁓ I know how to do that. I don't need to be there. That's one.
excuse or one reason that it didn't happen, but two, they just don't have time. How can you pull yourself away almost like you're talking about Memorial Day? But I think the one that really shook me was about, there's a stat that says 95 % of nonprofit leaders express some level of concern about burnout. It's on the back of everyone's mind and it's.
Leya Simmons (25:08)
Yeah.
Yeah.
100%.
Megan Draper (25:28)
But I think the reality, so when I talk to leaders or when I do presentations, we all talk about the different backgrounds that we have. Not some people are in small shops, some are in big shops, some are leading big teams, some it's a team of one. And so the reality is, is there's no silver bullet. And that's what we want in life, right? We want like, let me mark the box and move on. And so it really is almost a puzzle piece of, okay, what's happening and what can, what do we have control over? That's the biggest question, I think, as I start
working with people is what can you control and how do we shift, make those shifts, whether they're small or big. I have a friend who's a licensed counselor. And so she's been helping me do some of these different research and talk about burnout versus compassion fatigue, because they're not the same thing. Like compassion. So this is my friend kind of sat down with me and she said, ⁓ compassion fatigue is like the check engine light on the car.
Leya Simmons (26:17)
⁓ tell us more. I'm curious this.
you
Megan Draper (26:28)
and burnout is being broken by the side of the road. ⁓ And so compassion fatigue is really, it's emotional, it can be mental, it can be physical. Like it shows up in a lot of different ways for people, but it develops when your caring continues without any sort of replenishment.
Leya Simmons (26:30)
already gone. ⁓ that makes sense.
Yeah.
Megan Draper (26:48)
And it truly is, like if you Google all the medical things on compassion fatigue, it's literally called the cost of caring. You care so deeply that you just don't have anything else to give. And then burnout, of course, is that that's where you're just done. You can't do any more. A lot of times that's when people are leaving the sector. But.
It's this as we talk through it and when I talk about with clients in coaching or would present the invitation is for you to look and see what those signs are. What is that engine light that's going on in your life that you can say? This isn't how I usually respond.
Leya Simmons (27:23)
Wait a minute.
So what do you see? So what do some people experience? I've described my anxiety with that, but I'm positive, as you said, there's no one path. And have you identified any like, okay, I'm talking to this type of person, so I'm almost certainly going to see these signs, you know?
Megan Draper (27:43)
I think the reality, that's a really good question. A lot of times you kind of know walking into it because they've already, like, you know, we've done an intake, they've shared stories, they need help, they're all of these different things. But especially for fundraisers, it's you're dreading the donor calls that you used to enjoy. You're like, I have to pick up that phone or. ⁓
Leya Simmons (27:51)
Stay best.
yeah.
Megan Draper (28:05)
you're feeling just really disconnected from the mission. And you know, when I started out right out of college, I remember a gentleman told me he was high up, been in fundraising for years and he was like, if you care about the mission, that's your number one step. Like you can do anything, but don't go into an organization where you don't care about the mission and try to raise money. That's not gonna work for you, right? You have to have that connection. And that's why compassion fatigue is so real, right? You care about the mission, you have that
Leya Simmons (28:27)
Yeah.
Megan Draper (28:35)
connection and that empathy. And so one of the things that we'll talk about in a little bit is how you can have empathy but not have to carry it. that, yeah. So as I was doing all this research, this was probably six months ago, eight months ago, I walked down to my husband. I was like, I carry empathy. Like he's like, yes, you do. Like why? And I was like, I didn't realize.
Leya Simmons (28:44)
Wow.
Megan Draper (28:58)
I carry it and then I want to solve it and then I want to make it mine. And that's a really big one, especially for leaders in the nonprofit sector who care about this mission, that you don't have to carry it all. You can hold it and you can care.
Leya Simmons (29:12)
Yeah.
Megan Draper (29:15)
but you don't have to make it yours. And that's really hard. again, donor calls, feeling disconnected from that mission, losing motivation. And I think too, when you get to the point of like, should I leave the sector? Like.
Leya Simmons (29:27)
Yeah.
Megan Draper (29:28)
Am I done here? And one of the biggest red flags that I see kind of early on even is when ⁓ leaders start saying should. Well, that donor should give. That donor should be coming, right? Because the reality is fundraising is so personal. It's so relational. You're not going to make anybody do anything, which is why all of this happens, right? Because we're so like,
Leya Simmons (29:41)
⁓ interesting.
Megan Draper (29:54)
want to get involved and we want to meet our goals and we're type A in that, that's possibly like, but then you're like, this is still relational and we're not to make a gift that's actually impactful. You have to lean into those emotions of the donor and figure out what they want, not what they should do in the end. Yeah.
Leya Simmons (30:11)
should, yeah.
Wow, that is a really interesting, that I would not have seen coming, that that's the word that you start, that that's when you should maybe be concerned.
Megan Draper (30:21)
Yeah, and I think it's just a it's one of the starters, right? Like, because it's like, I'm so frustrated, they should give more than that. And it's it's just a realignment. It's a refocus, a switch in your mindset, right? And it part of it is taking a step back. It part of it is, I need to do the things that give me joy for a second and then step back into this and being able to balance that.
Leya Simmons (30:25)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
So one of the things that I have, and this probably comes more from my time as a yoga teacher and my interest in wellness practices and mindfulness and recovery practices and all of the things that are in my world outside of my work. But I do find a lot of times when we talk about having anything like compassion fatigue, but in this case that, that solutions end up being almost more work. They end up being or feeling like, ⁓
So because I will take on guilt around that feeling. Like I do love this work and I should, here's my should, I should be happy. I should feel joy. And I did, but now I don't. And then, you know, somebody comes in or I read, I'm reading that I, know, okay, well here are all the things you need to do. And then it just feels like now I have a whole nother job. Like I've joked a million times that at 50 years old, I'd have to quit my job if I wanted to eat the appropriate amount of protein that people are doing. it's a bit like, I mean, so how,
Megan Draper (31:24)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Leya Simmons (31:46)
How do you mitigate that? How do you, and I also, and I would love for you to talk, speak to this, but I do think that there's a design flaw in this, in our sector and in the work that we present that ends up, that leads us to this level of compassion, fatigue and burnout that ends up losing 19 % of our people. I mean, I think it's like every year. I think that number is every year. So, which is just an astounding amount. So anyway, sorry, that's a mixed bag of a question, but.
Megan Draper (32:11)
Yeah.
Well, and I think it's also important for us to realize now, like there's such a shift in the nonprofit world in leadership, right? And I think one of the things that was a catalyst for all of this is I read a LinkedIn post and it was a leader who was probably in her forties. And she said she went to lunch with a friend and they had a conversation and they both were tired. They were like, we've done it, we're tired. Like we need to get out. And the reality is, is if everybody who has expertise and wisdom just leaves our sector,
Leya Simmons (32:17)
Yeah.
Megan Draper (32:41)
it's gonna crumble. Right? And so I think that's the hard part of all these things. And to even say to somebody, hey, do more work at that point. you know, read, and I feel it too, right? Like I need to wake up at.
Leya Simmons (32:44)
Yeah, exactly.
Megan Draper (32:58)
4 a.m. in order to exercise. So before my kids get up, you know, and so like, what does that look like? And so ⁓ I'm a big planner. I like a good plan. And then I like to implement plans. And so as we think about kind of that arc, right, like that generosity canvas arc that I have, that we work on, it always starts with people. And so we look and we say, who are you? Who's your community? Who's already giving? ⁓ Who is already there? And what is their story? Right. And so it really is focusing. If you don't mean
Leya Simmons (32:59)
Yeah.
Megan Draper (33:28)
philanthropy is literally called to love human beings, right? That's the root of the word. And so if we're not focused on the human beings, we're losing sight of things there. you know, being able to really look at that and I say like the database or a CRM is actually a storybook of the organization, right? So it has the data, why do they give? What does that give?
Leya Simmons (33:37)
missing it.
With a Y,
right?
Megan Draper (33:51)
And so I think what's freeing a lot of times to leaders is the reality that not everybody should give to your organization, right? If they don't care about it, like help them find something else. Don't, you know, don't just sit and think, I need to get to everybody in.
Leya Simmons (34:10)
Yeah.
Megan Draper (34:10)
Austin or in Dallas or because that's not how it aligns. And so I think we have to align next that vision. your organization is created to help a certain type of people. What is that vision? The reality is, is there's a certain type of people who are called to give to that mission too. Not everyone, and you could do a $5, right? Like that's the thing, right? There's always the people that will do that, but this deep.
generosity that we're talking about right now in our sector is only when that aligns with the mission and vision. Mission and vision. And so if we start with the people, the next is aligning that vision. How do we talk about it? Right? What is it? What are your funding priorities? Because again, we've shifted a lot in our sector to be able to say, ⁓ it's not just a give because you should.
It's a what is that impact, right? And then we talk about it. These I think organizations forget that arc, right? You have to be able to talk about it. And so that's really where a lot of the work that I do with nonprofit leaders are is like, how don't you know, how do we create talking points for you? Because a lot of the smaller ones just don't know. They're so passionate and they so long that everyone should support it that they forget like, how do you share this? Right? I call it story making and not storytelling, inviting them to be a
Leya Simmons (34:58)
Right. Yep.
Megan Draper (35:27)
part of the mission and a part of the story. And then really talking about how that rolls out.
Leya Simmons (35:34)
Okay. This is so, I think, find this very helpful as well. And very, like I said, concrete and tactical. So I'm now curious for somebody listening to us and who's listened to, you know, some of your red flags and they've been saying should a lot and they're, losing their story. So now I've identified, okay, I think I've probably got some compassion fatigue and uh-oh, burnout's next. But I, but again, as somebody listening, what happens if you just aren't sure?
Megan Draper (35:54)
Mm-hmm.
Leya Simmons (36:01)
who to go to to talk about it and maybe are concerned that they are going to say this is woo woo or that, you what are you talking about? you know, I, I, I do believe those kinds of boards and some leaders are out there that are not, I don't want to say savvy to this, but are not as empathetic to this idea. There's just kind of a drive, drive, drive kind of mentality. How do you approach that?
Megan Draper (36:25)
Right, I think the reminder that I would want to give any leader is that being able to say it and communicate it isn't a short sight. It isn't a weakness. It actually is true leadership to be able to say, care about this mission in a way that I want to make it sustainable. And these are the downfalls that I have. And so part of that ⁓ canvas is creating a plan.
Leya Simmons (36:38)
So much.
Megan Draper (36:45)
and vision, we call it vision to rhythm. Like what does that look like? What are we doing annually? How do we evaluate that? But then what's happening quarterly, what's happening monthly, and what's happening weekly? And so I think to really have a strong conversation with a leader who isn't in it, right? Who isn't seeing it every day to be able to say, here, here, these are my expectations. When I look at my job description, when I look at my goals, when I look at my metrics, this is what is being, I'm asked to do.
Leya Simmons (36:45)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Megan Draper (37:13)
And this is where there's a downfall. This is where there's a not happening. This is where, and I think that reality is it is a balance. You can't go in and say, I'm tired, right? Like, because I'm like, me too. But I think having that conversation of, hey, this is what I'm seeing. This is where I'm not showing up well with donors because of the time. Like, and being able to have that conversation. And so,
First of all, think having talking to a leader and just saying like, this is what I'm feeling. And this is what I see could happen. Like come up with a solution as best as possible. ⁓ I truly believe there's a space in our sector for coaches.
Leya Simmons (37:54)
100%.
Megan Draper (37:55)
time in my career, right? And that's not just because I'm a coach, but because I see you can't lead alone. Even if it's a development director and an executive director, you still need that opportunity to see from the outside, to be coached, to be spoken to in a way where you say, here are ways that you can make this work. What are you looking at ⁓ quarterly in order to make sure you're meeting your goals? And what is actually reasonable? And I think that's been my...
Leya Simmons (38:02)
No.
Megan Draper (38:25)
That's been my experience in different organizations, right? They come in, you're like, hey, I've looked at my pipeline, I've looked at this, I could raise a million dollars. And they're like, great, please raise two. And you're like, ⁓ So I think that's where this plan comes into place, right? You actually have the arc, you're saying like, reasonably this is what it looks like. And I think, I mean.
There are lots of different types of leaders. So I don't want to overgeneralize on how they will receive it. But I think if you come in, like having your talking points, sometimes chatGTB can help, right? Hey, this is what I'm feeling. This is what I, like help me have a leadership style conversation. ⁓
Leya Simmons (38:58)
Yeah.
Megan Draper (39:04)
But that's the internal conversation. think getting help externally is ideal. A coach, a counselor, I think even just a friend who can relate and listen is helpful. Other things like you were saying, sometimes it really is putting it down and walking away, right? Just going outside and taking a walk. Not in as a have to, but a get to, right? And so I joked once with somebody before they walked into a...
Leya Simmons (39:20)
Mm-hmm.
Good to hear.
Megan Draper (39:31)
fundraising meeting they were going to do the ask and she was really nervous and I was like you can do Superman like you stand up and you put your arms out and like that gives you confidence and it opens up and gives you the airway and so even little things like that before you go into conversations standing tall deep breaths ⁓ I Did a presentation once on this and I joked like, you know, all those things they told you to do in kindergarten Like that's what we should be doing
you know, getting good sleep and eating healthy and regular exercise, right? Active relaxation. ⁓ Kind of to your point though, it's always tough when you're like, I have to add another thing to my day. How does that work? So.
Leya Simmons (40:00)
Good breakfast. Yep.
Yeah.
But I do think what I'm hearing you say though is you're less prescriptive around, okay, now go take care of yourself. You're prescriptive around, here's how we can impact your workload and change what you're doing functionally in your job. So that maybe you can, I mean, free up and do whatever else it is that you want to do. So I really do love that. So listening to you talk about all of this too. ⁓
I wonder about maybe there's an executive director or I'm honestly I've been thinking about board members. Now I'm myself I'm a board member and how can a board member show up and maybe either identify when somebody has this level of fatigue or I mean, ideally, right? As a sector, we're preemptive about this that we're kind of trying to give our...
⁓ front-line fundraisers and everybody else a language ⁓ for this feeling and for, then we ideally eventually shift the workload. But how could a board member ⁓ impact this right now?
Megan Draper (41:13)
I love this question and I think the reality is again, setting these rhythms and making sure board members as leaders understand their role, one as a board member, but two as the opportunity to speak into the team, not in a, this is what you should do managerial way, right? But in a, hey, how are you taking care of yourself? What are things that I could do that maybe would allow you to have a little more flexibility? Is there a donor that I could help?
Leya Simmons (41:30)
prescriptive.
I love that question.
Megan Draper (41:43)
talk to, open a door with, right? And I think the reality is these rhythms that I keep talking about, right? We have a vision and how do we, and confession, when I first started building out this training, it was actually called Vision to Strategy. And I thought, oh, we gotta have a strategy and you gotta implement this plan. And all of a sudden, it just hit me that the reality is it's a rhythm. Like if it doesn't happen today, 95%, it's okay.
Right? Like it can happen tomorrow, but we do need to know what those rhythms are so that we don't miss opportunities, so that we staying on track. And so those rhythms include, like I said, you're going to visualize annually, you're going to track quarterly, you're going to reevaluate.
Leya Simmons (42:10)
Mm.
Megan Draper (42:28)
monthly to say like hey why don't you change we're not on track and then you're I I believe that ⁓ each week finding something to celebrate and so as a board member being able to kind of just check in and say like hey what
It's kind of like the, we call it a rose and a thorn in our family. We sit down, we say, what was the rose of your day? What was the thorn of your day? Right? I think if there is someone who leads in a way on a board that is empathetic, that understands the work that we do and is able and willing to just say like, hey, I just want to check in with you.
What is it? Where are you? How do we adapt things? And really, I've seen really good board members do this, right? And they come alongside the executive director. They say, hey, let's take a sabbatical, is very one direction, right? But even just what can we do? Can we get interns, right? And so I think the reality is understanding what we can control and then
Leya Simmons (43:17)
How can I help? Yeah.
Megan Draper (43:25)
doing what we can to make that happen. And it's the same thing with a board member. And it brings me joy to know that there are those types of board members out there, right, who care about the mission and know their role and are willing to just say, and I think even having a board member say like, hey, I don't know what to do in this situation. I want to support you. Like being vulnerable enough and open-handed would be an ideal, wouldn't it? Like.
Leya Simmons (43:49)
Yeah, 100%.
And just to have the, because I do think that board members come in, gangbusters, gung ho, very excited about the mission, but then that does eclipse sometimes the.
actual humans and what they're doing and we end up with these, you know, unrealistic metrics sometimes, but even if they are realistic, that's the only thing that we're focusing on as opposed to the real health of the organization also encompasses the health of the humans that are part of the organization on the services side as well. then I like just given our compassionate natures and given the type of person that is called to this type of work.
And I do think I could speak to a lot of women also broadly and certainly moms. There is like a ⁓ almost reward sometimes to the martyrdom piece. And so I'm asking this question to give you space to speak to your pillars because of those four components, because I want to give you some time to like really talk through that piece. ⁓ But, you know, because to me, that's how we ⁓ shift the culture.
So anyway, go ahead and speak to that.
Megan Draper (45:05)
And
I think the reality is that capacity gap is real and people call it different things, But that's just what I kind of realized as I looked through this of where are we being, where are we short-sighted in our sector, right? We want, we have.
Leya Simmons (45:09)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Megan Draper (45:20)
We have a mission typically of like, this is what I'm doing day to day. But then what does that look like in motion? And so again, when we think about these different gaps, part of it is the human capacity, right? So the team spend more time managing chaos than cultivating impact. And that's usually because there's not some sort of goals, metrics, especially smaller organizations, right? Again, what are you raising money for?
Leya Simmons (45:46)
structure.
Megan Draper (45:49)
I don't know. How do you communicate it? I don't know. Because there's not enough people a lot of times. ⁓ Then operationally, think you could probably speak towards this much better than I can in terms of systems, CRMs. What does that look like to manage it, to keep it clean? Then how do you integrate?
Leya Simmons (45:55)
time. Yeah.
And how do you
leverage it? mean, you know, the, lot of times I do, we, I mean, just every day, my sales team and account managers are talking to folks who have a system, I mean, literally at their fingertips and are not really using it or not really, certainly aren't using it to its fullest capacity to, to lessen the time and the workload on the people that are involved.
Megan Draper (46:33)
And a lot of times these all interact and are intersect, right? Because they're not utilizing ⁓ the database, the CRM, whether it's BetterUnite or whatever they're using, right? To its fullest capacity because they don't have enough people to stop and to do it, right? Or whatever.
Leya Simmons (46:36)
100 percent.
anything.
set it
up and do the integrations and yeah, 100%.
Megan Draper (46:54)
And so that's the operational side of it. So it's everything from what do we do and how we're going to do it, right? And how do we enter a gift? How do we enter ⁓ data, contacts, all of that, right? And so then you get to a point in your 10 years down the road and it's scattered everywhere. so that's part of this. And a lot of times it is smaller organizations, right? And then the financial capacity. Like I said earlier, people are really having a hard time defining what they're raising money for in a way in today's
When I worked with Furman on a couple of things, which is where I went to school, and we joked that my dad who went there gives to Furman because he should. Right? He's like, ⁓ I graduated. Here's right. And then, right. It's kind of been the expectation. And then like our generation, you come in and you're like, okay, well, what is the impact and what do I align with? And I want to give to a certain ⁓ club or department.
Leya Simmons (47:36)
This is what I do.
Efforts or yeah
Megan Draper (47:51)
And then our children's generation is gonna come up and they're gonna be completely different. And so, to be able to communicate that across the board, to be able to show that impact, but first you have to define actually how much you need. What are your programs? What does that look like? And I'm not a CPA, I'm not that, but it is something where we can say, well, how much does it cost to do this? And building out a budget in a way that's... ⁓
impactful where you can define those philanthropic priorities, right? By doing this, you do this. Helping create that narrative of how you're going to share it again, the story making, not storytelling. I think also the other thing that I'm seeing here is that so many organizations say, I need $10 million or you know, when you're like, why? And they're like, because, you know, and so it's a very different ⁓
Leya Simmons (48:39)
Thank
Megan Draper (48:44)
Not every organization needs $10 million. Now they would be delighted if they had it, right? But it really is a reminder that every organization is different. Everybody needs different amounts of money. And the reality is that it's important to every organization the amount that they raise, right? Whether it's 100,000 or...
100 million, it's still the work going towards it and creating systems. And then relationally, it's just really hard because of who we are and that we're engaging these donors. And we have to be thoughtful about we can't hold all of them. can't have, and we are as a sector shifting that, right? There's no longer have a portfolio of 250, right? Instant when you're taking that into consideration. And so this generosity canvas structure really touches on each of those capacity gaps in a way that
We're listening, we're hearing, we're actually aligning it. ⁓ We're creating a structure. We do a brain dump. So we say, tell me everything that we need to know about the organization time-wise. And we just put it down on paper. And then we start saying, well, if you have a gala here, don't do this big project at the same time. And that's where I think, especially leaders who are external,
Leya Simmons (49:54)
right after. ⁓
Megan Draper (49:59)
If you can say to them and you have a a strategy for essence of like, hey, I'm not saying no, I'm just saying not now.
I'm not saying that's a bad idea. I'm saying let's put the data with it. Right. And so being able to give ⁓ empowering leaders is what this is all about. Right. When you have a compassion fatigue it's because you feel out of control. It's because you don't you can't you're holding all of the emotions and you feel like it's all on you. And so by having a coach having someone walking alongside you having a plan that everyone agrees on. Right. Like I'm not saying make this in a
Leya Simmons (50:07)
Yeah.
Megan Draper (50:36)
Closet. Right. ⁓ And so even like I'm working with boards to go through this generosity canvas. So working internally to say, hey, leader, what are these points that we need to communicate with the board and then getting their buy in? Right. Who are they, quote unquote? I we used to call it a donor profile. Right. Back in the day. Right. So who are the but who's your community? Who's your philanthropic community that we really should be looking at? And then how are we aligning the vision? And it is interesting where
Leya Simmons (50:36)
Vacuum, yeah.
Yeah.
Megan Draper (51:06)
a lot, some, not a lot, some organizations have really strong missions, but they don't, they can't define that vision, right? A mission is what you're doing now. The vision is how the world is gonna be a better place 100 years from now. And so putting that into language and creating a narrative is hard when you don't have all the in place. And so even sometimes it's helpful just to know you don't have all the pieces, right? Like I'm...
Leya Simmons (51:23)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, name
it. Yeah.
Megan Draper (51:34)
Yeah, I'm trying to put a puzzle together and I can't, I'm missing two pieces. Well, that's because it was lost, right? It was whatever. And so I think that's a huge part of all of this is being able to name it, see it. I tend to, I'm a writer downer. if write it down, being able, because then you know.
what's supposed to happen. You can go back, you can look and see the success that you had. I mean, that's the importance of goals. It's not as a punishment, it's really as an opportunity to help you succeed and see the good things that are happening. So it's a bit.
Leya Simmons (51:59)
Yeah.
I mean, that
on its own is a very good reframe, frankly, that I think all of us could be reminded of, that a goal is not a terrifying deadline. It is something that we are working toward so that we can be happy when it happens.
Megan Draper (52:21)
And I think going back to your point about board members, think that's the crux of it. That's the key, right? Because the executive director has that mindset because the board has that mindset, which means that executive director is filtering down into the organization that same mindset. And so being able to say this, mean...
Leya Simmons (52:26)
Mmm, yeah.
Megan Draper (52:42)
as silly as it can sound, it's a get to, right? Like the work that we do really does impact others. It is something. And I think we just, I think that was when I first started this. I was like, we've forgotten that this can be fun. Like.
I was talking to a client recently and we were kind of walking through. She's like, I don't know what to do. I don't have this. Like, and so she had, she's like, no, she had called her entire portfolio, right? Like she's like, I've done all of these things. I'm close to goal. Like I, but they all are waiting for the summer. I don't remember the reason that she couldn't get to him, but, I said, well, do the fun thing. Like take them a cookie. Like, I don't know, like find the thing. And we always think like cultivation and stewardship are different, but they're not.
Like, stewardship is an entire donor journey process, an opportunity that you can steward and really care about people.
Leya Simmons (53:26)
No.
I do, and I think it's interesting this moment in time as well where, and I mean, here I am as the, on the technology side, but while AI is very exciting and eventually will open up our bandwidth so that we can do more of the relational piece and the cultivation piece that's the fun part.
Right now there is this like AI FOMO piece, I think that a lot of people have that they haven't implemented all of the possible things that they could possibly do. And, you know, I talked with our mutual friend, Erin Peshoff the other day on this, on the 501c drop. And she spoke also to another piece that you said the weekly check-in, like she has the Friday problem was actually the title. But she also did talk about, you know, how to kind of take some steps towards having your Claude or ChatGBT or built-in AI, you
take a piece of your load so that you can do more of the fun things, but not beating yourself up if it's not all happening today.
Megan Draper (54:38)
Right, exactly. I think being able to have it written down in my opinion, and that looks different for every person, right? I always joke if I am really on top of it, it's all on my Microsoft to do, right? It's in my paper.
Leya Simmons (54:43)
Totally agree.
Megan Draper (54:53)
If I'm a little scattered, it gets written down in a notebook. And if I'm completely gone, it's posted notes everywhere. And that's when I know I need to take a breath and take that time. I think ⁓ to that point of AI, there are so many tools out there that can just, it's almost a built-in coach if you can treat it that way. There's so many times where I'm like, hey, ⁓
Leya Simmons (55:02)
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Megan Draper (55:18)
review this, does it sound okay? Like make sure it's on brand. Yes, it takes a little bit to get there, but once it's not ideal, like it's not a fail safe, right? But like once you see it and you're like, oh, this is another way to reframe it, that allows you to almost coach yourself in that. And so if you don't have a budget for a coach or you don't have an ability to talk to someone, utilize that to create strategies, right? This is what I'm thinking. This is what I'd like to do. This is everything that needs to happen. Create a quarterly plan for me.
Leya Simmons (55:28)
Now.
Yeah.
That's great. That's wonderful advice. I mean, Megan, I can talk to you about this forever, clearly, because we are down to like four minutes left. I can't believe this has flown by. I didn't even pay attention to the time. So I have to ask you my last question that I love to ask everybody, which is if people listening right now to this take one piece away or there's something they could implement tomorrow, this week, maybe even this whole summer, let's give everybody some grace. What would that thing be?
Megan Draper (55:49)
you.
yeah.
I love that. ⁓ First, I want people to remember that they are doing good things. Like the reality of what they're doing, the impact they're making, the world is a better place because nonprofits exist. And there's no one can fight that. Right. And so I think that is a mind shift that I wish everybody would be able to remember on a bad day. That is.
Leya Simmons (56:37)
Hold on to, yeah.
Megan Draper (56:39)
⁓ Two, I think that you're not alone. ⁓ And that could be, ⁓ again, looking for a coach, looking for ⁓ somebody locally, looking for a group of other nonprofit leaders. ⁓ An executive leader that I worked alongside was like, I can't talk to anybody here because we're all intertwined.
then look at LinkedIn. Reach out to someone you admire and say like, hey, can we just have a conversation? I'd love to learn about how you do things. Whatever that looks like, finding somebody you can talk to, I think is really huge as well. ⁓ I would love to talk with anybody. I do free consultations, just chatting with people to be able to say like, hey, where are you?
would it make sense to work? What level would that look at? And then I mentioned to you earlier, I do have a sheet which is almost like a mini canvas, which allows them to say, here's your community. And it's just you can write in the little pinwheel, who is that person that would want to give? How do you talk about it? What's your vision alignment? So I will get that link to you. And then putting that in there, just something where it helps organize your thoughts.
Leya Simmons (57:28)
Yes.
Hmm.
Yes.
We will be sharing that with along with the recording of this ⁓ webinar. Megan, thank you so much. So I, and I love that idea too of just putting it down on paper or digitally or whatever version of that is.
that is for you, because honestly, as you were saying that earlier, it feels like relief to me. I'm the same. I have my to-do list that is long and never ending, but I feel better when it's out of my brain and on a piece of paper that I know like eventually I will get to. So I've put up on the screen if you're watching. If you do have questions for Megan or would like to engage her services, megan at phil, P-H-I-L-R-E.com. And also please, if you are interested in you.
you're not seeing this and need to remember something easier, support at betterunite.com. We can connect to you for sure to Megan at any time. just, Megan, thank you so much for this conversation. This was just wonderful. And I hope, I believe we'll be very helpful to folks that are listening.
Megan Draper (58:44)
grateful to be here, but I just thank you for what you're doing and being a resource to leaders. This is great.
Leya Simmons (58:48)
Of course.
I love it. Well, join us. So as we say all the time, we do our 501c drops.
every Tuesday at 1 30 central. So next week we will be joined by Steven Chaddock of the capital campaign pro and he's going to talk about his some new research actually that he's putting out the 2026 state of capital campaign. So we're going to take a hard left turn shift from talking about taking care of yourself to some of the data that's in our sector. But I'm very excited about this. Like I said, Tuesday, June 2nd. And if you're watching this, you can scan to register.
You can also, of course, email support at betterunite.com. And if you have questions about Better Unite and have no idea what we were talking about when we were talking about Better Unite, let us show you around. Scan that QR code that I'm now showing, or again, support at betterunite.com. Email us. We would love to show you ⁓ a CRM, a holistic solution that hopefully can lighten the load for ⁓ our nonprofits. Megan, again, thank you so much. I truly appreciate you and your time today.
Megan Draper (59:54)
Yeah, thank you. Have a great one.
Leya Simmons (59:55)
Of course,
you too. And thank you for everybody. Thank you to everybody that has joined us. Everybody have a wonderful day and let's all go do some good. Bye bye.